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	<title>Comments on: Cavalry Charges: Practice</title>
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	<description>Failing better at understanding the past</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gavin Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-536</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For such an unusual and well-known unit, there are surprisingly few sources online, in print, or even in manuscript. Most of the administrative records of Waller's army at that time have been lost, so we don't know much about where they got their horses and armour, or what they cost.

Atkyns is probably the most detailed account of them in action. They do seem to have been good in close combat, and it could be that they eventually decided to run away because the rest of Waller's cavalry had gone and left them outnumbered by the royalists. Barry Denton's biography of Haselrig would be expected to includee most of what is known about the regiment, but I haven't read it myself.

I think the main reason why so few cuirassiers were used in the First Civil War is that they were only useful in big battles, whereas most cavalry operations consisted of scouting and raiding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For such an unusual and well-known unit, there are surprisingly few sources online, in print, or even in manuscript. Most of the administrative records of Waller&#8217;s army at that time have been lost, so we don&#8217;t know much about where they got their horses and armour, or what they cost.</p>
<p>Atkyns is probably the most detailed account of them in action. They do seem to have been good in close combat, and it could be that they eventually decided to run away because the rest of Waller&#8217;s cavalry had gone and left them outnumbered by the royalists. Barry Denton&#8217;s biography of Haselrig would be expected to includee most of what is known about the regiment, but I haven&#8217;t read it myself.</p>
<p>I think the main reason why so few cuirassiers were used in the First Civil War is that they were only useful in big battles, whereas most cavalry operations consisted of scouting and raiding.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-532</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-532</guid>
		<description>I'm interested in the Lobsters, Haselrigs Hevaily armoured cavalry unit...they seemed to have had a distinct advantage in melee combat, though this didn't necesariy translate into any shock advantage. Their commander Haselrig was almost impossible to kill according to an account by Richard Atkyns, and one wonders how effective the whole unit must have been when multiplied by their total unit strength

You aware of any good sources on them in particular, particularly online?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m interested in the Lobsters, Haselrigs Hevaily armoured cavalry unit&#8230;they seemed to have had a distinct advantage in melee combat, though this didn&#8217;t necesariy translate into any shock advantage. Their commander Haselrig was almost impossible to kill according to an account by Richard Atkyns, and one wonders how effective the whole unit must have been when multiplied by their total unit strength</p>
<p>You aware of any good sources on them in particular, particularly online?</p>
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		<title>By: Investigations of a Dog &#187; Cavalry Charges: Rallying</title>
		<link>http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Investigations of a Dog &#187; Cavalry Charges: Rallying</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-175</guid>
		<description>[...] Edgehill fits Clarendon&#8217;s view perfectly, and it might not be a coincidence that this was the only battle he is known to have witnessed himself. The royalist cavalry on both wings routed Essex&#8217;s cavalry wings very easily. All of the royalist cavalry, including the reserves who were not intended to take part in the first charge, went off in pursuit of the defeated enemy. It&#8217;s likely that the inexperience of both men and horses made the wings difficult to keep under control. If the charge turned into a stampede it would have been difficult to pull up the horses. Men who hadn&#8217;t been in a major battle before would have been easily confused in the chaos (see Ludlow&#8217;s and Bulstrode&#8217;s accounts of Powicke Bridge in Cavalry Charges: Practice for some examples). There might also have been an element of material self interest as some of the royalists went to plunder the baggage train, killing some of the wagoners and setting fire to their wagons. While the royalist cavalry failed to exploit their initial success by reforming and turning on Essex&#8217;s infantry, there were up to two regiments of parliamentarian cavalry which had been kept in reserve and which were able to attack the royalist infantry in the rear. What could have been an instant win for the King turned into a draw, and led to a long war. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Edgehill fits Clarendon&#8217;s view perfectly, and it might not be a coincidence that this was the only battle he is known to have witnessed himself. The royalist cavalry on both wings routed Essex&#8217;s cavalry wings very easily. All of the royalist cavalry, including the reserves who were not intended to take part in the first charge, went off in pursuit of the defeated enemy. It&#8217;s likely that the inexperience of both men and horses made the wings difficult to keep under control. If the charge turned into a stampede it would have been difficult to pull up the horses. Men who hadn&#8217;t been in a major battle before would have been easily confused in the chaos (see Ludlow&#8217;s and Bulstrode&#8217;s accounts of Powicke Bridge in Cavalry Charges: Practice for some examples). There might also have been an element of material self interest as some of the royalists went to plunder the baggage train, killing some of the wagoners and setting fire to their wagons. While the royalist cavalry failed to exploit their initial success by reforming and turning on Essex&#8217;s infantry, there were up to two regiments of parliamentarian cavalry which had been kept in reserve and which were able to attack the royalist infantry in the rear. What could have been an instant win for the King turned into a draw, and led to a long war. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-169</guid>
		<description>This is a really good point. Nearly every historian has poured scorn on Rupert for going for the baggage rather than the infantry, but maybe he did know what he was doing. If you steal all the draught horses and torch the wagons, the enemy army is effectively crippled. I'll be saying more about this in a future post, but considering Rupert's previous experience it's hard to understand his actions at Naseby unless he had something more than plunder in mind.

At the operational and strategic level the royalist cavalry do often seem to have had a psychological advantage. Rupert's cavalry had the upper hand in the Thames valley in the spring and summer of 1643, and that probably played a part in Essex's decision to withdraw to Brickhill. A lot of historians see this either as tactical shortcomings of parliament's cavalry, or as evidence of Essex's lack of enthusiasm and/or competence, but I'd see it more in terms of numbers and supply problems. Parliament's finances were in a poor state, and there was no workable system in place for supplying remounts to the army. We know much less about the royalist supply situation, but there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that they had more cavalry in 1643. They certainly used their cavalry effectively by raiding parliamentarian areas, and Essex found it difficult to stop them (although Essex's cavalry occasionally managed to raid the area around Oxford).

Overall I have a lot of time for shock as a psychological concept, I just find it odd that so many historians have swallowed the idea of physical shock when it doesn't seem to have been widely believed in during the seventeenth century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really good point. Nearly every historian has poured scorn on Rupert for going for the baggage rather than the infantry, but maybe he did know what he was doing. If you steal all the draught horses and torch the wagons, the enemy army is effectively crippled. I&#8217;ll be saying more about this in a future post, but considering Rupert&#8217;s previous experience it&#8217;s hard to understand his actions at Naseby unless he had something more than plunder in mind.</p>
<p>At the operational and strategic level the royalist cavalry do often seem to have had a psychological advantage. Rupert&#8217;s cavalry had the upper hand in the Thames valley in the spring and summer of 1643, and that probably played a part in Essex&#8217;s decision to withdraw to Brickhill. A lot of historians see this either as tactical shortcomings of parliament&#8217;s cavalry, or as evidence of Essex&#8217;s lack of enthusiasm and/or competence, but I&#8217;d see it more in terms of numbers and supply problems. Parliament&#8217;s finances were in a poor state, and there was no workable system in place for supplying remounts to the army. We know much less about the royalist supply situation, but there&#8217;s plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that they had more cavalry in 1643. They certainly used their cavalry effectively by raiding parliamentarian areas, and Essex found it difficult to stop them (although Essex&#8217;s cavalry occasionally managed to raid the area around Oxford).</p>
<p>Overall I have a lot of time for shock as a psychological concept, I just find it odd that so many historians have swallowed the idea of physical shock when it doesn&#8217;t seem to have been widely believed in during the seventeenth century.</p>
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		<title>By: Battlefield Biker</title>
		<link>http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Battlefield Biker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-168</guid>
		<description>This is really great stuff. I understand your points on the actions and reactions to a "charge," but I'm wondering if you have found any references to "shock" as a strategic weapon rather than a tactical one. Rupert's cavalry were often found in the enemy rear sacking baggage trains within minutes of the battle commencing and only returning near the end of a battle (if at all). Was this a lack of discipline or could it be that the idea was to "shock" the opposing generals into thinking a major part of their line had collapsed (dispersal as they rode through at high speed), encirclement was threatened ("where is that crazy SOB?"), and key supplies had been destroyed / captured ("We've got reports that the reserve powder has been torched")? I reckon that Rupert's early success was due to this knowledge...and it explained why he was so keen to exploit as far as he could early in the war. He knew that his game would be figured out eventually.

In modern combat, the armoured vehicle provides lots of shock just by showing up, even in urban terrain, so tactical shock is a real possibility, (It takes a man with complete and total control of his bladder to stare down an 70-ton M1 tank that is passing at 40mph) but it is still normally the long, sweeping arrow on the map mixed with chaos being called in on the radio that gives the impression of meltdown in the Corps HQs. i.e. Desert Storm. The Republican Guard began withdrawing before seeing the first Allied tank, but the mere word of its fearsome speed and total destruction "shocked" them into retreating.

What do you reckon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really great stuff. I understand your points on the actions and reactions to a &#8220;charge,&#8221; but I&#8217;m wondering if you have found any references to &#8220;shock&#8221; as a strategic weapon rather than a tactical one. Rupert&#8217;s cavalry were often found in the enemy rear sacking baggage trains within minutes of the battle commencing and only returning near the end of a battle (if at all). Was this a lack of discipline or could it be that the idea was to &#8220;shock&#8221; the opposing generals into thinking a major part of their line had collapsed (dispersal as they rode through at high speed), encirclement was threatened (&#8221;where is that crazy SOB?&#8221;), and key supplies had been destroyed / captured (&#8221;We&#8217;ve got reports that the reserve powder has been torched&#8221;)? I reckon that Rupert&#8217;s early success was due to this knowledge&#8230;and it explained why he was so keen to exploit as far as he could early in the war. He knew that his game would be figured out eventually.</p>
<p>In modern combat, the armoured vehicle provides lots of shock just by showing up, even in urban terrain, so tactical shock is a real possibility, (It takes a man with complete and total control of his bladder to stare down an 70-ton M1 tank that is passing at 40mph) but it is still normally the long, sweeping arrow on the map mixed with chaos being called in on the radio that gives the impression of meltdown in the Corps HQs. i.e. Desert Storm. The Republican Guard began withdrawing before seeing the first Allied tank, but the mere word of its fearsome speed and total destruction &#8220;shocked&#8221; them into retreating.</p>
<p>What do you reckon?</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That's a really good quote that I don't remember seeing before. By the mid-nineteenth century the idea of "shock" was much more explicitly articulated and widely held than it had been in the seventeenth century, but there still isn't any convincing evidence of it happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a really good quote that I don&#8217;t remember seeing before. By the mid-nineteenth century the idea of &#8220;shock&#8221; was much more explicitly articulated and widely held than it had been in the seventeenth century, but there still isn&#8217;t any convincing evidence of it happening.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Smailes</title>
		<link>http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/2006/12/15/cavalry-charges-practice/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Smailes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think your summation of cavalry combat is excellent. 

On reading your post I immediately turned to the dairies of the cavalryman Temple Godman, written during the Crimean war (The Field of War). On page 75 he discusses the charge of the Heavy Brigade of the Battle of Balaclava. I was keen to read his first hand account, since I was aware he had become involved in the fierce hand to hand combat that followed the less famous charge. He says, referring to witnessing the first charge on the Russian cavalry:

‘The enemy seemed quite astonished and drew into a walk and then a halt; as soon as they met, all I saw was swords in the air in every direction, the pistols going off, and everyone hacking away right and left. In a moment the Greys were surrounded and hemmed completely in; there they were fighting back to back in the middle, the great bearskins caps high above the enemy.’

This fits nicely with option 3 – both sides stop and fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your summation of cavalry combat is excellent. </p>
<p>On reading your post I immediately turned to the dairies of the cavalryman Temple Godman, written during the Crimean war (The Field of War). On page 75 he discusses the charge of the Heavy Brigade of the Battle of Balaclava. I was keen to read his first hand account, since I was aware he had become involved in the fierce hand to hand combat that followed the less famous charge. He says, referring to witnessing the first charge on the Russian cavalry:</p>
<p>‘The enemy seemed quite astonished and drew into a walk and then a halt; as soon as they met, all I saw was swords in the air in every direction, the pistols going off, and everyone hacking away right and left. In a moment the Greys were surrounded and hemmed completely in; there they were fighting back to back in the middle, the great bearskins caps high above the enemy.’</p>
<p>This fits nicely with option 3 – both sides stop and fight.</p>
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